From the perspective of "China in the World," we are indeed better equipped than ever before to resolve the "debate between ancient and modern, China and the West." The dialogic research of mutual learning between China and the West should be the path and prerequisite to transcend "the imagination of the foreign" and resolve the "debate between ancient and modern, China and the West."

CNS reporter An Yingzhao

Under the theme of "Building a Community for Development and Co-creating a New Era for Humanity," the Second Tongzhou Global Development Forum, hosted by Renmin University of China, was held in Beijing from the 15th to the 16th. Yang Huilin, former Vice President of Renmin University of China and Da Hua Chair Professor, attended the forum and engaged in discussions with several foreign scholars at a sub-forum themed "The Course of Diverse Civilizations and the Development of Global Civilization" on the 15th.

The Second Tongzhou Global Development Forum was held in Beijing from [month] [day] to [month] [day]. Nearly a thousand Chinese and foreign guests from close to 30 countries gathered in Beijing to discuss global development and human civilization. Photo by Pei Xinyu.

From the perspective of "China in the world," we indeed have more conditions than ever before to resolve the "debate between ancient and modern, China and the West." Yang Huilin recently told China News Service in an exclusive interview for "East and West Questions" that China and the West urgently need in-depth dialogue and mutual interpretation at the ideological level. The dialogic research of mutual learning between China and the West should be a path and prerequisite beyond "the imagination of the foreign" and resolving the "debate between ancient and modern, China and the West."

The 2nd Tongzhou Global Development Forum was held in Beijing from a certain date to a certain date. The host, Renmin University of China, officially released the report "Humanity: Comprehensive Development of People and Society," where original concepts such as the "Comprehensive Development Goals (CDGs)" were first proposed at the forum. Photo by Pei Xinyu.

The following is a summary of the interview transcript:

Reporter from China News Service: From the Nishan Forum on World Civilizations to the Wuyi Forum and now the Tongzhou Global Development Forum, you often engage in dialogues with scholars from different countries to explore the exchange and mutual learning of civilizations. Why can mutual learning be achieved among different civilizations?

Yang Huilin: We advocate for cultural exchange, and first and foremost, we should consider what "mutual learning" means. Mutual learning is commonly translated into English as "mutual learning," but in fact, the Chinese character "鉴" has a more interesting connection with English, which encompasses multiple meanings such as reflection, introspection, expression, contemplation, and recollection. The term "mutual learning" is precisely about this kind of interaction between each other. In English, there are multiple meanings and a certain degree of ambiguity, which is similar to the polysemy of the Chinese character "鉴," thus allowing for mutual interpretation. From the mutual interpretation of the term "mutual learning" in both Chinese and English, it can be seen that there are fundamental commonalities between different civilizations.

The important prerequisite and method for mutual learning is comparison. In the context of Chinese, "Shuowen Jiezi" states, "Two people together form 'cong,' and reversing 'cong' forms 'bi'"; "Han Shu" records, "When the qi is the same, they unite; when the sounds are similar, they respond." "Guangyun" explains "jiao" as: "It is interchangeable with 'xiao,' meaning comparison. One person alone checking is called 'xiao,' and two people checking together is called 'chou.'" This is the inherent structure of the Chinese language, containing the logic of "being together" and "coexisting" rather than "seeking similarity" from oneself. This "paired structure" can be seen throughout traditional Chinese culture.

The content of "opposites complementing each other" is very abundant in Chinese cultural classics. Its philosophical prototype can be traced back to the "Zhouyi" (Book of Changes), for example, the "Yin and Yang together form the Dao" from the "Xici" chapter of the "Yi Zhuan" (Commentaries on the Book of Changes); the "Tao Te Ching" also states, "Being and non-being give birth to each other, difficulty and ease complement each other, length and shortness shape each other, height and depth incline towards each other, sounds and voices harmonize with each other, before and after follow each other, this is constant"; in the "Zhuangzi: Autumn Floods," it is "knowing that east and west are opposites but cannot exist without each other."

After thorough investigation, the renowned Western religious historian Mircea Eliade still believed that the concept of "the waxing and waning of yin and yang and their mutual generation and complementarity" embodies the "originality of Chinese thought." From a modern discourse perspective, when Chinese people speak of "同" (similarity), they are actually emphasizing "共" (commonality) more often. Chinese people can both advocate for harmony without uniformity and promote the idea of universal harmony; they support countries in preserving their cultural characteristics while also advocating for the promotion of universal human values. The concepts of shared destiny and mutual appreciation of beauty are also based on "being together" and "existing together," not on "seeking similarity" from an "individual" perspective. The "同" (similarity) in the concept of a community with a shared future for mankind is not opposed to "harmony without uniformity"; interpreting "同" through "共" (commonality) is precisely the uniqueness of Chinese thought.

This explains why we translate the concept of a community with a shared future for mankind as " ", using " " (emphasizing the meaning of "共") rather than " " (emphasizing the meaning of "同").

In a certain month and year, scholars from multiple countries jointly proposed the "Joint Agreement on Cultivating the Sense of Responsibility for Human Welfare through Intercultural Dialogue" at the Third Niyama World Civilization Forum, and signed the initiative. Photo by reporter Liang Ben, China News Service.

Reporter from China News Service: Having dedicated decades to the study of comparative literature and philosophy, how can China and the West better discover and understand each other from the perspectives of language, literature, and philosophical thought?

Yang Huilin: The fundamental connection between China and the West in "discovering each other" should be "mutual interpretation" at the level of thought and culture, which is both mutual explanation and mutual discovery.

For instance, the renowned French poet Victor Segalen, often referred to as "the Chinese poet of France," wrote works that are profoundly "very Chinese." His book "Painting & Theories of Exoticism" includes topics such as "The Peril of the Xia Dynasty," "The Fall of the Shang Dynasty," "The Shame of the Zhou Dynasty," "The Mausoleum of the Qin Dynasty," "The Abdication of the Western Han Dynasty," and "The Wild Rush of the Eastern Han Dynasty," which are entirely "sinicized." Segalen also authored "Theories of Exoticism: An Aesthetic of 'Multiplicity.'" He viewed "multiplicity" as encompassing all that is exotic, extraordinary, unexpected, astonishing, mysterious, superhuman, and even sacred, all expressed through "". The crux here is the manifestation of "otherness," which corresponds to the "" or "" in continental philosophy. Interestingly, Chinese culture is often seen by the French as a benchmark of "diversity," and China and the West, represented by France, often imagine each other as "foreign lands."

The political systems and economic models of China and the West differ, and behind these differences lie different ways of understanding the world. In China's interactions with the West, we often mention the "three pillars"—trade and economy, politics, and culture. However, taking France as an example, the initial interaction between China and France was not about trade but about mutual recognition, communication, and appreciation in culture, which is a truly deep-level communication that is very important.

China has established high-level people-to-people exchange mechanisms with many Western countries, using cultural activities as a driving force, academic exchanges as a foundation, and the approaches of "mutual learning between East and West" and "achieving oneself by helping others," achieving significant results. In the current context, China and the West urgently need in-depth dialogue and mutual interpretation at the ideological level, which will provide a favorable public opinion environment for China's comprehensive development and upgrading transformation, inject necessary balance mechanisms into the tense relationships and interests of the current world, and lay a lasting and effective foundation for China to play an important constructive role in international affairs.

On the date, the opening ceremony of the "Romantic Planet - 'Ocean-Technology' Local Research and Art Co-Creation Project" exhibition, part of the Sino-French Digital Ocean Culture Month series of events, was held at the Art and Play Center of the Digital Education Town in Changle, Fujian. Photo by reporter Lv Ming from China News Service.

Reporter from China News Service: In today's "China of the World," how should we transcend "the imagination of foreign lands" and resolve the "debate between ancient and modern, East and West"?

Yang Huilin: According to the French historian Fernand Braudel, "There is no French history, only European history; ... there is no European history, only world history." Liang Qichao, in "The Introduction to Chinese History," referred to the "Upper Ancient Period" from the Yellow Emperor to the Qin Dynasty as "China in China," the "Middle Ancient Period" from the unification of China by Qin Shi Huang to the end of the Qianlong era in the Qing Dynasty as "China in Asia," and the "Modern Period," which involved "interaction and competition with the West," as "China in the World."

From the perspective of "China in the World," we are indeed better equipped than ever before to address the "debate between ancient and modern, China and the West." The dialogic research of mutual learning between China and the West should be the path and premise to transcend "the imagination of the foreign" and resolve the "debate between ancient and modern, China and the West." As the renowned Western scholar of religious studies, Max Müller, stated in his seminal work "Introduction to the Science of Religion," "All profound knowledge is acquired through comparison and is based on comparison." Mutual learning between civilizations also requires dialogue and comparison as its methods.

Yang Huilin, former Vice President of Renmin University of China and Distinguished Professor at the Dahua Chair, attended the 2nd Tongzhou Global Development Forum in Beijing on a certain date. Photo by reporter An Yingzhao from China News Service.

Professor Michel Espagne from the École Normale Supérieure in Paris and I have had multiple conversations. He has publicly stated, "The more the world is filled with conflicts and misunderstandings, the more academic dialogue is needed. Only 'dialogic' academic research can help humanity achieve true mutual understanding." I greatly appreciate his perspective.

The "cultural confidence" we advocate must also be achieved through dialogue between different cultures. Through civilizational dialogue, you will find that without dialogue, not only do we fail to understand others, but we may also not fully understand ourselves. Dialogue is not only self-expression but also self-identification through comparison; it is not only about making others understand us but also about better understanding ourselves. Dialogic research not only reinterprets the unique texture of Chinese civilization through comparison but also addresses the narrative modes of Western discourse; it not only inspires the opportunity to revisit our own traditions but also provides the possibility to "enter" the Western knowledge system.

In fact, modern Chinese academic studies are themselves the product of dialogue between Chinese and Western cultures. For example, Lü Simian believed that there are no truly identical things in the world, "What is considered the same is actually due to insufficient scrutiny, mistakenly taking different things as the same," but "within each distinct culture, there still exist common principles," so "to truly understand Chinese history, one must also be proficient in foreign history." Qian Mu also stated, "Recent scholars have turned to studying Western philosophy, using it to interpret ancient texts, and thus the study of the philosophers has gained significant attention. ... Zhang Binglin from Yuhang, using Buddhist philosophy and Western theories to elucidate the philosophers, ... followed by Hu Shi from Jixi and Liang Qichao from Xinhui, leading to the widespread popularity of the study of the philosophers."

Feng Youlan further employs the "Western interpretation of Chinese" approach in his English-published book A Short History of Chinese Philosophy, not only explaining "under the sky" and "within the four seas" from a Montesquieu-style "geographical environment" perspective to elucidate "why Chinese civilization, especially Chinese philosophy, is as it is," but also comparing Confucianism's "inner sage, outer king" ( ) to Plato's "philosopher king" ( - ), and "the movement of the Dao is in opposition" ( ) to Hegel's "everything contains its own negation" ( ). He believes that any philosophy contains "permanent" ( ) concepts, as well as "changeable" ( ) and "common" ( ) elements; therefore, not only can differences be compared, but they can also be "translated using the concepts of the other side" ( ).

As the English poet William Blake has a poem titled "Auguries of Innocence," Xu Zhimo, Tian Han, and others have translated it into Chinese multiple times, with the wording remaining largely the same: "To see a world in a grain of sand, and a heaven in a wild flower." This similar translation has deeply embedded itself in the Chinese understanding structure, as expressions like "one flower, one world; one leaf, one bodhi" are commonly found in Buddhist scriptures such as the "Fanwang Jing" and "Fahua Jing." This may be a form of "imagining the foreign," but ultimately it achieves a diverse mutual interpretation.

Interviewee Profile:*

Yang Huilin. Photo by Jiang Qiming, reporter from China News Service.

杨慧林，文学硕士、哲学博士，中国人民大学大华讲席教授，中国人民大学原副校长。先后担任过中国比较文学学会会长、中国宗教学会副会长、国际比较文学学会副主席等，主要从事比较文学和宗教学研究。近年出版的主要著作有《意义》（2018修订版）、《神学诠释学》（2018增订版）等，以及英文论文集Christianity, China and the Question of Culture（2014）。

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Title: "Yang Huilin: Beyond the 'Imagination of the Foreign' to See 'China in the World' - East and West Questions" Text Editor: Cui Bailu Photo Editor: Cui Chuqiao Layout: Zang He Editor: Song Fangcan

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